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Author Topic: DO NOT LOOK AT THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN  (Read 86 times)
Myky D
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« on: July 04, 2018, 05:23:09 am »

Be frightened! Conspiracy!  Terrists! Football!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-44707052
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Red Herring
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« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2018, 04:45:10 am »

Weirder and weirder:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44719639

It's bizarre, on so many levels. If this is collateral damage from the original attack why has it taken so long to materialise, and why has nobody else been affected since then if this stuff has just been lying around?! And why does it appear to be killing in pairs?

Maybe what we're dealing with is some ghoulish prankster from the labs of nearby Porton Down who has an issue with middle aged couples (s/he may not have known the Skirpals were father and daughter).

Some weird chemical leak? The early stages of a killer virus that will wipe out man kind?

The Novichok attack didn't makes much sense in the first place ... it makes even less sense now.

Red
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Dutch Rosie
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« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2018, 05:42:56 am »

Until I looked at the link, I didn´t know that both cases were so close to Porton Down.  Psychopaths are everywhere and I dare say security at Porton Down might have failed.
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Red Herring
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« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2018, 06:19:25 am »

Until I looked at the link, I didn´t know that both cases were so close to Porton Down.  Psychopaths are everywhere and I dare say security at Porton Down might have failed.

That seems to me every bit as plausible as it being Russia. Remember the Anthrax attacks in the US after 911? They turned out to be  some nutter in a chemical facility:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_anthrax_attacks

Another suspect, Bruce Edwards Ivins, became a focus of investigation around April 4, 2005. Ivins was a scientist who worked at the government's biodefense labs at Fort Detrick in Frederick, Maryland. On April 11, 2007, Ivins was put under periodic surveillance and an FBI document stated that "Bruce Edwards Ivins is an extremely sensitive suspect in the 2001 anthrax attacks."[4] On July 29, 2008, Ivins committed suicide with an overdose of acetaminophen.[5]

On August 6, 2008, based on DNA evidence leading to an anthrax vial in Ivins's lab, federal prosecutors declared Ivins to be the sole culprit of the crime.[6] Two days later, Senator Chuck Grassley and Rep. Rush Holt called for hearings into the DOJ and FBI's handling of the investigation.[7][8] On February 19, 2010, the FBI formally closed its investigation.[9]


If it turns out to be a home grown terrorist it's going to be hilarious watching Johnson/May etc. choke down an apology to Russia.

Red
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Myky D
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« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2018, 06:23:30 am »

Even if it was a home grown terrist, it wouldn't be reported. Just look at what's happening to the Vote Leave campaign being found guilty of electoral fraud - buried using this, murdered children and football.
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Red Herring
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« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2018, 07:05:01 am »

Even if it was a home grown terrist, it wouldn't be reported.

I'm not sure, I think it would come out eventually. The government would prevaricate and equivocate endlessly, but would still end up with egg on its face. Much the same way as Blair did when there were no WMD in Iraq, and the truth came out about how the 'evidence' for WMD came about (dodgy dossier etc.). There are already signs of this with the Novichok testing, when the Porton Down boffins came out and diluted some of the wilder claims made by Johnson about being certain it was made in Russia etc.

I think they'd brazen it out (as Blair did with WMD), but I also believe it would be reported.


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Just look at what's happening to the Vote Leave campaign being found guilty of electoral fraud - buried using this, murdered children and football.

The Vote Leave campaign haven't been found guilty of electoral fraud (yet). The electoral commission are expected to find them guilty, but haven't finished their final report, and are still considering representations received from Vote Leave:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44704561

A spokesperson for the Electoral Commission said: "The commission has concluded its investigation and, having reached initial findings, provided Vote Leave with a 28-day period to make any further or new representations. That period ended on Tuesday 3 July.

"The unusual step taken by Vote Leave in sharing its views on the Electoral Commission's initial findings does not affect the process set out in law."

It said it would give "due considerations" to representations it had received and then publish a "thorough and detailed closing report in order to provide a full and balanced account".


So it's actually Vote Leave that publicised findings which haven't even been made yet. I expect the shit will really hit the fan when the Electoral Commission's report is officially released.

Red
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Myky D
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« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2018, 07:28:25 am »

Yeah ok, but my point about being buried still stands. If they are found guilty as suspected, the most that will happen is "We're sorry if anyone misinterpreted the message themselves due to their own failings we didn't do nuffink and anyway darkies" #sorrynotsorry

Brexit is way too explosive to derail now.

Unless that's what Putin is after.

Like America, we are so polarised now it's impossible to discuss it with people not on your side - its far too emotive.

I think if they try to reverse it there would be trouble - hence all this frantic scrabnling to water it down instead.

The upside is that the yuge shambles it is is terrifically entertaining.

In the same way playing with petrol is.
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Red Herring
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« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2018, 06:00:40 am »

Yeah ok, but my point about being buried still stands. If they are found guilty as suspected, the most that will happen is "We're sorry if anyone misinterpreted the message themselves due to their own failings we didn't do nuffink and anyway darkies" #sorrynotsorry

That will certainly be the line Vote Leave take, but I expect that Remainers will kick off something rotten - and remember that the majority of MPs were in favour of remain. Most of parliament would love to have a good reason to declare the referendum void, because right now it's political suicide to go against the so-called 'will of the people' (a completely inane phrase). If the referendum can be shown to have been faulty it becomes even less binding (not that it was ever binding in the first place, but that's another discussion).

So yeah, if the commission does find vote leave guilty of breaking electoral law then there will (and should) be a shit storm from the remainers.

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Brexit is way too explosive to derail now.

Unless that's what Putin is after.

It's too explosive not to be derailed, and as I say the majority in parliament oppose Brexit. That's why remainers have focused so hard on allowing parliament a say in how/if we leave.

As for what Putin wants - he's happy with anything that has a destabilising effect on the EU and/or NATO. For him Brexit is a dream come true because it means a weaker EU and a weaker UK which gives Russia a better chance of getting its own way in areas important to it (Ukraine/Syria). He certainly wouldn't want to derail Brexit, if anything he wants it to be as hard and acrimonious as possible. A hard Brexit would be lose/lose for the EU and the UK and a big fact win for Russia.

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Like America, we are so polarised now it's impossible to discuss it with people not on your side - its far too emotive.

That depends a bit on your interlocateur, the reason they backed Brexit, and how drunk you are. I've had some good conversations with Brexiters who supported it because of sovereignty, EU bureaucracy/lack of accountability, and a wish for reorientation towards the common wealth. All valid reasons, if a bit naïve, but perfectly possible to have a sensible discussion about. Those discussions can be quite fruitful up to about 5/6 pints when you start going in circles.

Then of course you have the mouth breathers where it's "immigration, control our borders, muslims, straight bananas, will of the people, two world wars and a world cup, political correctness killed my hamster" etc.etc. - all that before they've even had half a shandy. I dread to think what happens with them after a few pints, and hope never to find out - so I try to ignore them entirely.

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I think if they try to reverse it there would be trouble - hence all this frantic scrabnling to water it down instead.

Technically there's nothing to reverse as we haven't left yet, but I'm being pedantic. So yes, right now no politician wants to be seen to be going against the 'will of the people', especially politicians in constituencies that voted to leave. The people voted to jump off a cliff, and so that's what we have to do if we're going to respect democracy etc. etc. Best we can hope for is to make Brexit as painless as possible by making it as soft as possible.

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The upside is that the yuge shambles it is is terrifically entertaining.

In the same way playing with petrol is.

That's definitely true, and I am enjoying that aspect of it tremendously. It really is like watching a well-crafted horror or thriller. leaning back from the screen, hand on face, peeking through the figures, thinking it can't possibly get worse but then it does, knowing that at the end there will be some hint of an even more gut churning sequel in the final scene.

Red
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Myky D
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« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2018, 02:45:25 am »

Once again we find ourselves quite vociferously agreeing with each other.

Destabilising the EU is exactly what Putin wants,  but further disruption of the UK  would also be useful, which will happen if Brexit is reversed.

I think that May will indeed bring home a Red White and Blue Brexit; a very British Brexit - it will be a bit shit but we'll all get on with it because we have to, and everyone will have the opportunity to moan about it. Hell - we need it now that British Rail no longer exists and the weather's now quite nice.
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Dutch Rosie
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« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2018, 03:16:28 am »

The plot thickens and it seems that the new victims had a bottle of the stuff in their home.

I wonder if it came from Porton Down.
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