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Red Herring
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« on: March 06, 2018, 07:05:23 am »

Not sure how I feel about this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/43293645

It's got to the point where I just assume that anybody that wins the Tour De France is messing about in some way. I'm not a big fan of Wiggins, but at least he got permission for his drugs, so it wasn't secret. Fair play to him, if you can get the officials to agree, than you've shown guile. You can do whatever it takes to win provided it's within the rules of the game.

Red
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ymrader
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« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2018, 03:19:36 pm »

It's got so weird it's pointless, like f1. Was Roger banister clean ?
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« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2018, 04:33:07 pm »

There's a huge problem in the way that UK Sport allocates money, and it lends itself to this sort of 'rule bending'. If it was anyone else we'd be calling them cheats.

It's worrying how many medals the UK wins whilst sitting down. Be it rowing, cycling or sailing. They get huge money because we win medals, and we win medals because the amount of money you can spend is far more important than actual talent, although the two aren't totally divorced. It's akin to the America's Cup, when Ben Lexcen's 'Secret Keel' was far more important than the actual sailors....or indeed, whilst we're on the subject...any F1 race, best driver or best car?

I didn't go to a 'bad' school, but we didn't have a rowing, cycling or sailing team.

I've never tried any of them, and back in the day I was a bit sporty.

We've targeted technology driven sports in the pursuit of medals, and it has nothing to do with growing participation, or getting kids to play more sport, it's to do with glory. More kids play basketball than go rowing, guess where UK sport spends the money? It ain't on more Basketball courts.

It's almost an East German propaganda trick even without the Dave Brailsford 'rule bending' in cycling, but money can fund that shit.

We get more bang for our UK lottery buck, because aside from talent, cycling/rowing/sailing rely far more on money/technology. In cycling's case, be it the facilities, the bikes, the aerodynamic skin suit or the 'asthma therapy', money can fund them all. Name an African, Asian, or South American cyclist......funny that. Easier to compete with seven countries (seriously look at where the cycling medals have gone) than the whole world on a level playing field in a sport that doesn't rely on being able to spend a shed load of cash on having the best vehicle or facilities.

And that's even if they weren't drug doping, which it's fairly sure they were even if it's just inside the actual minutae of the regulations.

Harrumph.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 06:15:30 pm by TGK » Logged
Red Herring
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« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2018, 06:56:15 am »

There's a huge problem in the way that UK Sport allocates money, and it lends itself to this sort of 'rule bending'. If it was anyone else we'd be calling them cheats.

It's worrying how many medals the UK wins whilst sitting down. Be it rowing, cycling or sailing. They get huge money because we win medals, and we win medals because the amount of money you can spend is far more important than actual talent, although the two aren't totally divorced. It's akin to the America's Cup, when Ben Lexcen's 'Secret Keel' was far more important than the actual sailors....or indeed, whilst we're on the subject...any F1 race, best driver or best car?

I didn't go to a 'bad' school, but we didn't have a rowing, cycling or sailing team.

I've never tried any of them, and back in the day I was a bit sporty.

We've targeted technology driven sports in the pursuit of medals, and it has nothing to do with growing participation, or getting kids to play more sport, it's to do with glory. More kids play basketball than go rowing, guess where UK sport spends the money? It ain't on more Basketball courts.

It's almost an East German propaganda trick even without the Dave Brailsford 'rule bending' in cycling, but money can fund that shit.

We get more bang for our UK lottery buck, because aside from talent, cycling/rowing/sailing rely far more on money/technology. In cycling's case, be it the facilities, the bikes, the aerodynamic skin suit or the 'asthma therapy', money can fund them all. Name an African, Asian, or South American cyclist......funny that. Easier to compete with seven countries (seriously look at where the cycling medals have gone) than the whole world on a level playing field in a sport that doesn't rely on being able to spend a shed load of cash on having the best vehicle or facilities.

And that's even if they weren't drug doping, which it's fairly sure they were even if it's just inside the actual minutae of the regulations.

Harrumph.

'Ello Gordian,

There's definitely something a bit creepy about team GB's phenomenal success at the Olympics. We do far better than a nation of our size should, and we do it by throwing National Lottery money at a tiny handful of elite athletes we think have a chance of getting a medal, and leaving the rest to rot. It's proven to be an effective strategy in terms of winning medals, but as you say does nothing to increase participation.

Not sure it's simply because of the technology though. It's not only sitting down sports we've been doing well in. We've also had success in martial arts, boxing and athletics.

Red
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ymrader
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« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2018, 07:15:21 am »

'Ello Gordian,

There's definitely something a bit creepy about team GB's phenomenal success at the Olympics. We do far better than a nation of our size should, and we do it by throwing National Lottery money at a tiny handful of elite athletes we think have a chance of getting a medal, and leaving the rest to rot. It's proven to be an effective strategy in terms of winning medals, but as you say does nothing to increase participation.

Not sure it's simply because of the technology though. It's not only sitting down sports we've been doing well in. We've also had success in martial arts, boxing and athletics.

Red

Really creepy is my mates obsession with his homeland.

I think I know every actor, director and sportsman from nz on the planet.

And it's not like I care
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TGK
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« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2018, 05:50:43 pm »

'Ello Gordian,

There's definitely something a bit creepy about team GB's phenomenal success at the Olympics. We do far better than a nation of our size should, and we do it by throwing National Lottery money at a tiny handful of elite athletes we think have a chance of getting a medal, and leaving the rest to rot. It's proven to be an effective strategy in terms of winning medals, but as you say does nothing to increase participation.

Not sure it's simply because of the technology though. It's not only sitting down sports we've been doing well in. We've also had success in martial arts, boxing and athletics.

Red

Hi mate,

See now I'm not suggesting that talent won't rise to the top regardless, from my youth I was enthralled by Coe, Ovett, Cram, Whitbread, Sanderson and Thompson in athletics, Brian Jacks and that Adams fella in Judo, and boxing has always been big in the country.  Without the lottery cash.

We have and will have success in these sports. Cycling is the big anomaly here if we're honest. UK Sport identified a sport that is hugely technology driven, has a huge amount of medals available, and only 'rich' countries can compete in. I'm sure I'm right in saying that something like 95% of the something like 750 available medals in the last 20 odd years have been won by seven countries, and they aren't African, South American or Asian countries. (I'm fairly certain that those figures aren't 100% spot on, but the point does stand).

We identified a sport that has a lot of medals available, has a limited amount of winners, and where winning has a direct correlation to the amount of money you can spend on technology. Even without the very probable cheating, or by flying very close to the wind.

It doesn't sit well.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 06:46:42 pm by TGK » Logged
ymrader
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« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2018, 01:52:34 am »

Hi mate,

See now I'm not suggesting that talent won't rise to the top regardless, from my youth I was enthralled by Coe, Ovett, Cram, Whitbread, Sanderson and Thompson in athletics, Brian Jacks and that Adams fella in Judo, and boxing has always been big in the country.  Without the lottery cash.

We have and will have success in these sports. Cycling is the big anomaly here if we're honest. UK Sport identified a sport that is hugely technology driven, has a huge amount of medals available, and only 'rich' countries can compete in. I'm sure I'm right in saying that something like 95% of the something like 750 available medals in the last 20 odd years have been won by seven countries, and they aren't African, South American or Asian countries. (I'm fairly certain that those figures aren't 100% spot on, but the point does stand).

We identified a sport that has a lot of medals available, has a limited amount of winners, and where winning has a direct correlation to the amount of money you can spend on technology. Even without the very probable cheating, or by flying very close to the wind.

It doesn't sit well.

It's true, they target sports and assign people they think will be good enough. Saw an interview on one of the women's bob sled chicks who had attended a sort of conference on prospective athletes, she had wanted to be a heptathlete.

It explains how a young lass from Chopwell became a bob sleigher.
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Alte Dame, Alte Dame
Hertha BSC, so schön ist dein Name!
Die Farben Blau-Weiß,
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im Herzen weht nur eins:
Unsere Fahne!
TGK
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« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2018, 05:51:51 am »

It's true, they target sports and assign people they think will be good enough. Saw an interview on one of the women's bob sled chicks who had attended a sort of conference on prospective athletes, she had wanted to be a heptathlete.

It explains how a young lass from Chopwell became a bob sleigher.

On a similar subject, but it's a diversion, I've always wondered how people get into pole vaulting.

Given that no one I know owns a 'pole', and that even if they did I genuinely can't recall ever seeing anything to vault over, it can't be something you get into by accident.

I'm thinking that some relatively athletic type turns up for trials in a different sport, probably running, and if they can't run as fast as the rest, jump as far as the rest and are shit at throwing, they stick a pole in their hand and tell them to knock themselves out.
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Red Herring
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« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2018, 06:03:36 am »

We have and will have success in these sports. Cycling is the big anomaly here if we're honest. UK Sport identified a sport that is hugely technology driven, has a huge amount of medals available, and only 'rich' countries can compete in. I'm sure I'm right in saying that something like 95% of the something like 750 available medals in the last 20 odd years have been won by seven countries, and they aren't African, South American or Asian countries. (I'm fairly certain that those figures aren't 100% spot on, but the point does stand).

I can see that, but I think we have seen increased success in the other sports as a result of money being spent on top athletes. Talent can't raise to the top if you have to hold down a job to pay the bills in between training sessions. If you get a big grant from the lottery allowing you to train full time, your chances will go up exponentially - but I get your point about cycling and technology.

Also, I feel compelled to point out ... China is in Asia.

Red
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TGK
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« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2018, 06:33:35 am »

I can see that, but I think we have seen increased success in the other sports as a result of money being spent on top athletes. Talent can't raise to the top if you have to hold down a job to pay the bills in between training sessions. If you get a big grant from the lottery allowing you to train full time, your chances will go up exponentially - but I get your point about cycling and technology.

Also, I feel compelled to point out ... China is in Asia.

Red

We're probably agreeing on the whole, but the overall improvement argument doesn't really stand up if you look at the figures, according to UK Sport's own website, these are the figures for funding at the Rio Olympics.

Cycling - £30,267,816
Rowing - £32,622,862
Athletics - £26,824,206
Sailing - £25,504,055

Do you know many rowers or sailors? If you look at the size of the teams (or even the level of participation of the actual populace), the per capita spend on athletics is piss poor, it's clear they have targeted sports where technology spend matters, and where there is also (probably due to the first point) a limited field of competition.

And the participation argument totally falls apart, because it's got fuck all to do with making the country as a whole healthier.

Probably arguing with myself at this point, but it really grinds my gears....may be I need some funding to sort that.

Edit - I take the point about China, but it would appear they invested their cash in the swimming pool, probably not for dissimilar reasons.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 06:44:36 am by TGK » Logged
Red Herring
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« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2018, 07:44:10 am »

And the participation argument totally falls apart, because it's got fuck all to do with making the country as a whole healthier.

The participation argument is a complete non-starter. Nobody takes up sport just because they saw somebody win a medal.

Having said that, there has been a bit up-turn in cycling, especially in the Yorkshire Dales. But I suspect that's to do with the Dales hosting part of the Tour De France, and with the transport infrastructure (slowly) becoming friendlier for cyclists.

Red
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ymrader
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« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2018, 09:34:11 am »

I can see that, but I think we have seen increased success in the other sports as a result of money being spent on top athletes. Talent can't raise to the top if you have to hold down a job to pay the bills in between training sessions. If you get a big grant from the lottery allowing you to train full time, your chances will go up exponentially - but I get your point about cycling and technology.

Also, I feel compelled to point out ... China is in Asia.

Red

A significant amount of German athletes are either military or rozzers as part of a sports promotion programme.
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Alte Dame, Alte Dame
Hertha BSC, so schön ist dein Name!
Die Farben Blau-Weiß,
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im Herzen weht nur eins:
Unsere Fahne!
Mr Angry
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« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2018, 01:46:29 pm »

On a similar subject, but it's a diversion, I've always wondered how people get into pole vaulting.

Given that no one I know owns a 'pole', and that even if they did I genuinely can't recall ever seeing anything to vault over, it can't be something you get into by accident.

I'm thinking that some relatively athletic type turns up for trials in a different sport, probably running, and if they can't run as fast as the rest, jump as far as the rest and are shit at throwing, they stick a pole in their hand and tell them to knock themselves out.
I had a go at pole vault when I was a lad.  Turned out I had a remarkable talent.  Coach reckoned I was the only person he'd ever seen who could high jump higher than he could pole vault.  It's a skill.
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ymrader
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« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2018, 02:30:49 pm »

I had a go at pole vault when I was a lad.  Turned out I had a remarkable talent.  Coach reckoned I was the only person he'd ever seen who could high jump higher than he could pole vault.  It's a skill.

Tried the high jump once imfuckingpossible...
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Alte Dame, Alte Dame
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Die Farben Blau-Weiß,
die Trikots gestreift,
im Herzen weht nur eins:
Unsere Fahne!
TGK
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« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2018, 05:50:04 pm »

Tried the high jump once imfuckingpossible...

To be fair mate, when it comes to the high jump, you'd be better off limboing under it.
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Red Herring
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« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2018, 05:58:58 am »

To be fair mate, when it comes to the high jump, you'd be better off limboing walking under it.

Fixed that for you.

Red
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ymrader
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« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2018, 07:47:25 am »

Fixed that for you.

Red

 animated laugh
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Alte Dame, Alte Dame
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Die Farben Blau-Weiß,
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Myky D
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« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2018, 03:35:11 am »

I really, really don't understand the attraction of watching sport. Is anyone able to explain it to me? I enjoy a bit of cricket (Left arm over, leg and off breaks), but watching it incredibly dull. Football - what? The gossip is fun for three minutes, even though there's only one story - "Idiot footballer is misogynistic woman-abuser", but that's just because footballers are just racehorses with access to their own bank accounts.

I kind of get why women like watching rugby, just as men like watching the women's volleyball, but then if I want to watch filth I will do.

So - anyone?
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ymrader
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« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2018, 03:46:40 am »

Do you know many rowers or sailors?

I know a world champion sailor.

I live on an island, every fucker has either a sailing boat or a gin palace
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Alte Dame, Alte Dame
Hertha BSC, so schön ist dein Name!
Die Farben Blau-Weiß,
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im Herzen weht nur eins:
Unsere Fahne!
TGK
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« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2018, 12:49:39 pm »

I really, really don't understand the attraction of watching sport. Is anyone able to explain it to me? I enjoy a bit of cricket (Left arm over, leg and off breaks), but watching it incredibly dull. Football - what? The gossip is fun for three minutes, even though there's only one story - "Idiot footballer is misogynistic woman-abuser", but that's just because footballers are just racehorses with access to their own bank accounts.

I kind of get why women like watching rugby, just as men like watching the women's volleyball, but then if I want to watch filth I will do.

So - anyone?

Myky, if you were to watch me, watching Liverpool on Saturday night, there is simply no way you couldn't get:

a. Caught up in it.
b. Seriously aroused by my passion for the game.

And then my friend, you would be hooked. Either on me (natch), or the game. It matters.

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Myky D
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« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2018, 03:03:43 pm »

Myky, if you were to watch me, watching Liverpool on Saturday night, there is simply no way you couldn't get:

a. Caught up in it.
b. Seriously aroused by my passion for the game.

And then my friend, you would be hooked. Either on me (natch), or the game. It matters.



See - my mate is a massive Yid. One day I'd had an argument with my then-gf, and so he took me to the local to see the match - it was a big one, to cheer me up.

I kind of enjoyed it, but ... really?

Music I get - it is scientifically provable that many people have The Wrong Taste In Music, but sport?
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