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Author Topic: Why have children?  (Read 385 times)
vladimir
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« on: October 17, 2017, 09:18:30 am »

I have kids.  I love my kids.  The only reason I had them though was out of selfishness.  My ex wife wanted kids and did everything she could to make me feel like a failure for not being a father until I gave in and we had kids.  I love them and I will always love them but if I had a little more self respect I would have never been in that particular relationship and given a choice I would never have had kids.

Why do we feel the need to keep dragging out the existence of humanity?  What does it matter?  Barring some shocking paradigm shift in medical technology, it is highly unlikely any one of us on this board will be around in 50 years.  The more I learn about humans as I continue to exist, the less I like about them.  People in general are selfish, violent and hurtful.  The few people who have money and/or power throughout history have sent those without either off to fight and/or die to amass more money and/or power.  We could easily put a stop to ALL human suffering just by not making any more.  Why do we feel the need to keep it going?
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A wise man said, "You can't step in the same stream twice," but I find wet feet soon get caked with sand and grit.  That's very unpleasant, especially between the toes.  So when I go for a stroll I stay on the sidewalk.
What Larks
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« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2017, 09:28:08 am »

I didn't feel the need to have htem and neither did Mr Lark.  An older and wise woman (and a mother) told me maternal and patenral urges were nature's trick.  Of course anyone who really loves children as children can adopt or foster; no need to add to the world population.
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Rasta
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« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2017, 12:10:14 pm »

I have a background in biology, so the basic question is a bit silly to me. Why we have kids is obvious.

But for the rest, I think that we're just standing in different spots when we look at the meaning of life. I think that the world is wonderful that it's mostly filled with amazing people in which we can engage in meaningful relationships... or we can have passing momentary interactions with them. To me, this extremely short life is meant to have as many experiences as possible, preferably with those whom you love. I drive an unbelievably shitty car - it barely runs. Why? I can easily afford a monthly payment for a new one. Because I'd much rather take that money and put it towards having meaningful moments with my wife and kids - big trips and weekend road trips, going to the movies, going out to eat, camping/hiking/fishing, spending the weekend in the city to go to a concert or play, walking the dogs, decorating the house for Halloween or Christmas, riding bikes in the snow, sledding/skiing, etc etc etc. These are things that I used to do when I didn't have kids. The difference isn't even comparable. The value of this experiencing these things with my kids can't be overstated. But, in the words of Johnny Cash, "Sure miss the drugs, though."

Ain't gonna lie - having kids has made my life exponentially more stressful and complicated too. But I don't think that's the theme of this discussion, rather it's the world that we bring our kids into.

I don't think that people in general are selfish, violent and hurtful at all. Many are, no denying. Obviously, there are greedy, self-centered, opportunists. There's a biological imperative argument for them too. But, surely it's a minority. The world is full of beautiful people. We're a strong majority. Wars happen. Crime happens. Donald Trump happens. People cutting in line and Disneyland happens. There's no cure for pain and suffering. To completely stop existing as a cure to malaise, when there is a world full of fantastic things out there doesn't seem reasonable to me. To me, that's like these pricks that say they'll never take their kids to Disneyland because of the cost and the long lines. Sean, I've known you long enough to know that you realize that there's more to Disneyland than $7 churros and 45 minute waits for Splash Mountain. Ditto life.


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ymrader
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« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2017, 04:07:04 am »

I'm the last male in my family line so it will die.

It's a dumb surname anyway. Huh??

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vladimir
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« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2017, 08:09:09 am »

I have a background in biology, so the basic question is a bit silly to me. Why we have kids is obvious.

But for the rest, I think that we're just standing in different spots when we look at the meaning of life. I think that the world is wonderful that it's mostly filled with amazing people in which we can engage in meaningful relationships... or we can have passing momentary interactions with them. To me, this extremely short life is meant to have as many experiences as possible, preferably with those whom you love. I drive an unbelievably shitty car - it barely runs. Why? I can easily afford a monthly payment for a new one. Because I'd much rather take that money and put it towards having meaningful moments with my wife and kids - big trips and weekend road trips, going to the movies, going out to eat, camping/hiking/fishing, spending the weekend in the city to go to a concert or play, walking the dogs, decorating the house for Halloween or Christmas, riding bikes in the snow, sledding/skiing, etc etc etc. These are things that I used to do when I didn't have kids. The difference isn't even comparable. The value of this experiencing these things with my kids can't be overstated. But, in the words of Johnny Cash, "Sure miss the drugs, though."

Ain't gonna lie - having kids has made my life exponentially more stressful and complicated too. But I don't think that's the theme of this discussion, rather it's the world that we bring our kids into.

I don't think that people in general are selfish, violent and hurtful at all. Many are, no denying. Obviously, there are greedy, self-centered, opportunists. There's a biological imperative argument for them too. But, surely it's a minority. The world is full of beautiful people. We're a strong majority. Wars happen. Crime happens. Donald Trump happens. People cutting in line and Disneyland happens. There's no cure for pain and suffering. To completely stop existing as a cure to malaise, when there is a world full of fantastic things out there doesn't seem reasonable to me. To me, that's like these pricks that say they'll never take their kids to Disneyland because of the cost and the long lines. Sean, I've known you long enough to know that you realize that there's more to Disneyland than $7 churros and 45 minute waits for Splash Mountain. Ditto life.




I get what you're saying.  Perhaps I've just gone beyond a simple abject loss of faith in humanity.  I see people struggling to accomplish anything and it all just seems so futile.  Like splashing around in a pond to make the coolest looking wave.  Life is temporary and it's over in a flash.  Do you know who the wealthiest, most powerful family in early Mesopotamia was?  I don't.  Outside of a few academics and maybe some hobbyists that are REALLY into early civilizations I doubt anyone does.  Time makes every accomplishment meaningless.

We want to preserve our cultures.  Preserve our family names.  Preserve our values.  We can't.  We can drag them out for a bit but eventually they'll be so forgotten they may as well never have existed in the first place.  The only guarantee in the universe is inevitable oblivion.
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A wise man said, "You can't step in the same stream twice," but I find wet feet soon get caked with sand and grit.  That's very unpleasant, especially between the toes.  So when I go for a stroll I stay on the sidewalk.
everso
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« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2017, 08:54:26 am »

Crikey, Vlad, you sound as if you're really down!  This is what happens when you think about stuff too much.

Keep buggering on, old bean! 
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Weyland
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« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2017, 09:06:41 am »

Crikey, Vlad, you sound as if you're really down!  This is what happens when you think about stuff too much.

Keep buggering on, old bean! 

^^ Exactly that. ^^

I can't remember planning to have kids, or agreeing to stop the Pill or whatever, but we somehow ended up with two kids, both seven weeks premature, both disabled one way or another, and both now over 40 and both lovely people by any standard. I dare say I'll never have grandchildren, but could hardly care less, just as long as I have the two kids.

In my navigation of this Vale of Tears, I need to have them and their mother in my life, at whatever distance (currently 800km or so).
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vanceen
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« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2017, 10:00:26 pm »

I get what you're saying.  Perhaps I've just gone beyond a simple abject loss of faith in humanity.  I see people struggling to accomplish anything and it all just seems so futile.  Like splashing around in a pond to make the coolest looking wave.  Life is temporary and it's over in a flash.  Do you know who the wealthiest, most powerful family in early Mesopotamia was?  I don't.  Outside of a few academics and maybe some hobbyists that are REALLY into early civilizations I doubt anyone does.  Time makes every accomplishment meaningless.

We want to preserve our cultures.  Preserve our family names.  Preserve our values.  We can't.  We can drag them out for a bit but eventually they'll be so forgotten they may as well never have existed in the first place.  The only guarantee in the universe is inevitable oblivion.

You might enjoy Ecclesiastes.
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Rasta
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« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2017, 03:40:14 pm »

I get what you're saying.  Perhaps I've just gone beyond a simple abject loss of faith in humanity.  I see people struggling to accomplish anything and it all just seems so futile.  Like splashing around in a pond to make the coolest looking wave.  Life is temporary and it's over in a flash.  Do you know who the wealthiest, most powerful family in early Mesopotamia was?  I don't.  Outside of a few academics and maybe some hobbyists that are REALLY into early civilizations I doubt anyone does.  Time makes every accomplishment meaningless.

We want to preserve our cultures.  Preserve our family names.  Preserve our values.  We can't.  We can drag them out for a bit but eventually they'll be so forgotten they may as well never have existed in the first place.  The only guarantee in the universe is inevitable oblivion.

I totally get that.  I've always had a rather ghoulish preoccupation with the dead (not death, per se). The obituaries are the only thing that I read in the newspaper. I LOVE graveyards. When I travel for business, I search for hotels that are within walking distance of cemeteries. Walking among thousands of people who's lives are in the past tense is humbling. Family plots - families, just like yours and mine - completely gone. People that have have had remarkable lives and small children that have had no lives at all. It all seems completely wasteful and worthless. But they all had their experiences, just like we do. I do the same with old pictures - just stare at the faces of people who's lives where as valuable to them as mine are to me. Now, they're nothing but dust and old pictures. Even the power players in Mesopotamia - nothing.

I've noticed that it's really difficult for people to stay positive in the age of the 24/7 news feed. It's made my mother clinically depressed. Since she retired, all she does is absorb news like a sponge. I blasted her a few months ago because she said that I was selfish for bringing kids into this terrible world and she gets a pass because the world wasn't that bad in 1969 when she brought me into the world.  Angry Are you fucking kidding me?  And more concerning to me is that my 18 year old son is going down the same path. He actually once said to me "There's never been a generation that has gone through the terrible times that mine has".  animated laugh  Again, are you fucking kidding me? The man that lives across the street from us was on the beaches of Normandy when he was your age, you little *&#%@.  Your supervisor at work was in the jungles of Vietnam when he was your age, little &^#$. But, it truly hurts me, because that's his reality. And it's all because he's connected to the 24/7 IV news drip. Neither he or my mother can see what a great time and world we live in.

Yep, our lives are pretty meaningless and the world is full of shitty people doing shitty things. But, you might as well just splash around in a pond to make the coolest looking wave. Fuck it.

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You gotta pay the troll toll if you wanna get into that boy's soul
vladimir
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« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2017, 10:51:42 am »

Yeah... maybe I've just been taking things too seriously lately.

I'm at the tail end of a huge project at work.  I think when it's done I'm just going to grab a beer and a a guitar.  Sit at the edge of the pond and play as loud as I can while everyone else splashes around.
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A wise man said, "You can't step in the same stream twice," but I find wet feet soon get caked with sand and grit.  That's very unpleasant, especially between the toes.  So when I go for a stroll I stay on the sidewalk.
Mr Angry
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« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2017, 11:47:17 am »

Yeah... maybe I've just been taking things too seriously lately.

I'm at the tail end of a huge project at work.  I think when it's done I'm just going to grab a beer and a a guitar.  Sit at the edge of the pond and play as loud as I can while everyone else splashes around.
Yep. That's the answer  Play loud enough that we can all hear, then we'll know your sorted.  Assuming you're any good, that is, otherwise just gently strum, pkease.
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everso
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« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2017, 02:26:24 pm »

Yeah... maybe I've just been taking things too seriously lately.

I'm at the tail end of a huge project at work.  I think when it's done I'm just going to grab a beer and a a guitar.  Sit at the edge of the pond and play as loud as I can while everyone else splashes around.

Now you have it!  Don't think too much about stuff.  And don't worry about things you can't fix.
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Rasta
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« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2017, 10:54:26 am »

Yeah... maybe I've just been taking things too seriously lately.

I'm at the tail end of a huge project at work.  I think when it's done I'm just going to grab a beer and a a guitar.  Sit at the edge of the pond and play as loud as I can while everyone else splashes around.

Now, you're talking.

Music heals all.

....except cancer, HIV, drug addiction, etc.....obviously.
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everso
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MR. PHILLIPS


« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2017, 01:15:00 pm »

Rasta and Ev:  on line psychotherapists at your service

The doctors are IN
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ymrader
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« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2017, 03:21:38 pm »

Quote from: vladimir link=topic=17217.msg398913#mp sg398913 date=1508601102
Yeah... maybe I've just been taking things too seriously lately.

I'm at the tail end of a huge project at work.  I think when it's done I'm just going to grab a beer and a a guitar.  Sit at the edge of the pond and play as loud as I can while everyone else splashes around.

Dont take shit seriously. Hell you could be drinking beer with me and the Herring next year.
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Alte Dame, Alte Dame
Hertha BSC, so schön ist dein Name!
Die Farben Blau-Weiß,
die Trikots gestreift,
im Herzen weht nur eins:
Unsere Fahne!
everso
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MR. PHILLIPS


« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2017, 05:04:54 pm »

Exactly.
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AnnieOakley
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« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2017, 11:31:27 am »

Okay.  Now, louder.
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The dogs bark, the caravan passes.

You meet the same people on the way up as you do on the way down.
Red Herring
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« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2017, 05:42:48 am »

Dont take shit seriously. Hell you could be drinking beer with me and the Herring next year.

That's a hell of a thought. Now vlad's going to be really depressed.

Red
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vladimir
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« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2017, 08:14:50 am »

Every time I watch the news, I grab another beer and crank the guitar a little louder... well, I did.  Now I need a new amp.  I blew mine last night.

Thanks John Kelly.
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A wise man said, "You can't step in the same stream twice," but I find wet feet soon get caked with sand and grit.  That's very unpleasant, especially between the toes.  So when I go for a stroll I stay on the sidewalk.
AnnieOakley
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« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2017, 12:13:03 pm »

What did you wreck?
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The dogs bark, the caravan passes.

You meet the same people on the way up as you do on the way down.
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