The Great World Debate
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
October 18, 2017, 06:42:40 pm

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
R.I.P Nick. OLF died 13 October 2016.
118197 Posts in 5526 Topics by 86 Members
Latest Member: Aubrey
* Home Help Login Register
+  The Great World Debate
|-+  The Chamber
| |-+  The Comfy Chair of Conversation
| | |-+  Brexit -- UK leaving the European Union
| | | |-+  Barnier: to "teach the British people and others what leaving the EU means".
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] Print
Author Topic: Barnier: to "teach the British people and others what leaving the EU means".  (Read 874 times)
Riotgrrl
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 1396


« Reply #75 on: September 18, 2017, 04:36:35 am »

I think you're right.  Kinda like the UK really.

The genius of the UK's non-codified constitution (it's not 'unwritten') is that, recently, we HAVE identified the process for a nation wishing to leave the UK.  Still refining the details (could the devolved nations call a referendum without consent of UK Government?) but we now know that, when both UK and devolved nation agree to a referendum on independence, that's the mechanism to be used.
Logged
ben wedge
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 8282



« Reply #76 on: September 18, 2017, 02:56:29 pm »

The genius of the UK's non-codified constitution (it's not 'unwritten') is that, recently, we HAVE identified the process for a nation wishing to leave the UK.  Still refining the details (could the devolved nations call a referendum without consent of UK Government?) but we now know that, when both UK and devolved nation agree to a referendum on independence, that's the mechanism to be used.

Oh good.

So, we agreed to a referendum, it's been held and the result was that Scotland wanted to remain in the UK

Sorted Grin
Logged

Lone Ranger
ben wedge
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 8282



« Reply #77 on: September 18, 2017, 03:02:24 pm »

I could definte 'the corrupt elitist British establishment', but it's a rhetorical device and i'm not feeling particularly soap-boxy today.  Don't we all have a general idea of who they are without the need to debate the exact parameters of the membership?

I think the EU is a relatively incoherent political unit, but a pretty tight trading one.  In my lifetime its political role has increased (for example, its recognition of newly independent Balkan states was an important move), but for the most part its not a unit that hugely impacts upon our lives in terms of politics.   It's the council who decide what our schools are like and when our bins get collected, not the EU.  The political (as opposed to economic) impact of the EU has been quite limited so far.

Yep. it is  the Council that decides such matters , not Westminster

As you astutely recognise though - the EU's "political role has increased " and will continue to do so. I think that that is generally accepted, which is why the vote was to leave
Logged

Lone Ranger
Mister Fantastic
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 8126



« Reply #78 on: September 18, 2017, 03:28:33 pm »

Yep. it is  the Council that decides such matters , not Westminster

As you astutely recognise though - the EU's "political role has increased " and will continue to do so. I think that that is generally accepted, which is why the vote was to leave

Ben,

Can you imagine if Juncker had made THAT speech before the referendum vote? The option on the ballot paper would've been Remain or Leave (and don't fucking look back).

I imagine even the Scottish are now not stupid enough to want to be shackled to Juncker's fascist dream. Then again...
Logged

Dr Taj Hargey, Chairman, Muslim Education Centre Oxford :
No, but... I've just mentioned that, we have a one vocabulary in private and we have another vocabulary for the public domain, and that's why you don't hear it because you're the public domain.
Riotgrrl
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 1396


« Reply #79 on: September 19, 2017, 04:07:35 am »

Oh good.

So, we agreed to a referendum, it's been held and the result was that Scotland wanted to remain in the UK

Sorted Grin

Yes.  That was the result three years ago.  i'm aware of that.

How is that relevant to the point I was making however?
Logged
mikado
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6358

a Nineteenth Century pseudo-Oriental nightmare


« Reply #80 on: September 19, 2017, 09:35:02 am »

The genius of the UK's non-codified constitution (it's not 'unwritten') is that, recently, we HAVE identified the process for a nation wishing to leave the UK.  Still refining the details (could the devolved nations call a referendum without consent of UK Government?) but we now know that, when both UK and devolved nation agree to a referendum on independence, that's the mechanism to be used.

We established a means by which HMG and the Scottish Government were willing for the question of Scottish independence to be taken forwards.  I don't know whether that means was necessarily "constitutional" or binding on future independence issues.  If you think the method was constitutional then specifically what in the non-codified constitution made it the appropriate method?
Logged

No fear, no hate, no pain, no broken hearts
ben wedge
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 8282



« Reply #81 on: September 19, 2017, 03:46:25 pm »

Yes.  That was the result three years ago.  i'm aware of that.

How is that relevant to the point I was making however?

Pretty obvious I would have thought

Riot "when both UK and devolved nation agree to a referendum on independence, that's the mechanism to be used."

ben "So, we agreed to a referendum, it's been held and the result was that Scotland wanted to remain in the UK"

We have used the appropriate mechanism and reached a decision

....unless of course you want to just keep having referenda until you get the result you want

That was not long ago - how frequently do you suggest we hold these, annually?,
Logged

Lone Ranger
Riotgrrl
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 1396


« Reply #82 on: September 20, 2017, 06:44:36 am »

Pretty obvious I would have thought

Riot "when both UK and devolved nation agree to a referendum on independence, that's the mechanism to be used."

ben "So, we agreed to a referendum, it's been held and the result was that Scotland wanted to remain in the UK"

We have used the appropriate mechanism and reached a decision

....unless of course you want to just keep having referenda until you get the result you want

That was not long ago - how frequently do you suggest we hold these, annually?,

You would hold a Scottish referendum every time the Scottish Parliament passed a bill saying that it was its desire to have one.  That would be how these things work.

Currently the Scottish Parliament has stated that it will consider having another one once Brexit details are clear.  The current government were elected on a manifesto of looking at a 2nd referendum if the UK voted to leave the EU, so the mandate for it is ironclad.   But the politics of the situation means that my or may not happen.
Logged
ben wedge
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 8282



« Reply #83 on: September 20, 2017, 09:05:58 am »

You would hold a Scottish referendum every time the Scottish Parliament passed a bill saying that it was its desire to have one.  That would be how these things work.

Currently the Scottish Parliament has stated that it will consider having another one once Brexit details are clear.  The current government were elected on a manifesto of looking at a 2nd referendum if the UK voted to leave the EU, so the mandate for it is ironclad.   But the politics of the situation means that my or may not happen.

Aren't you forgetting what you said earlier...."when both UK and devolved nation agree to a referendum on independence, that's the mechanism to be used."

You may find that we will decide to go the Spain v Catalunya route instead Grin
Logged

Lone Ranger
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.135 seconds with 20 queries.