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Poll
Question: Does It Have A Place In 21st Century London?  (Voting closes: November 22, 2017, 03:42:04 pm)
Yes
No,it should be toppled

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Author Topic: Does Nelsons Column Have A Place In 21st Century London?  (Read 599 times)
Snotty
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« on: August 24, 2017, 04:42:04 pm »

Vote Now Smiley

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/22/toppling-statues-nelsons-column-should-be-next-slavery
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 05:22:27 pm by Snotty » Logged

everso
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MR. PHILLIPS


« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2017, 04:47:40 pm »

No, definitely not.  What tosh.
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ben wedge
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« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2017, 06:28:24 pm »

Of course it has a place...Trafalgar Square, innit?

Strewth
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Lone Ranger
Snotty
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« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2017, 06:35:15 pm »

Of course it has a place...Trafalgar Square, innit?

Strewth

But will it be for much longer?
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everso
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MR. PHILLIPS


« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2017, 04:08:50 am »

But will it be for much longer?

It's an historical statue commemorating an admiral whose navy beat the French navy at the Battle of Trafalgar.  At the time, it was a very big deal.  The woman who wrote the Guardian article is entitled to her view, but I think most people here, especially the UK tourist industry, would object to tearing down Nelson's statue.
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Red Herring
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« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2017, 05:04:45 am »

It's an historical statue commemorating an admiral whose navy beat the French navy at the Battle of Trafalgar.  At the time, it was a very big deal.  The woman who wrote the Guardian article is entitled to her view, but I think most people here, especially the UK tourist industry, would object to tearing down Nelson's statue.

I don't think the tourist industry would care much, Nelson's Column is one of the least interesting of London's monuments.

One option could be to take Nelson off and replace him with someone or something else, we needn't take down the whole thing. It could be like the fourth plinth, every year we would put something different on top of it.

Interestingly, it wouldn't be the first time a major London monument has been defaced in the interests of political correctness, Monument itself was amended 150 years after its construction:

The Latin words "Sed Furor Papisticus Qui Tamdiu Patravit Nondum Restingvitur" (but Popish frenzy, which wrought such horrors, is not yet quenched) were added to the end of the inscription on the orders of the Court of Aldermen in 1681 during the foment of the Popish Plot.[2] Text on the east side originally falsely blamed Roman Catholics for the fire ("burning of this protestant city, begun and carried on by the treachery and malice of the popish faction"), which prompted Alexander Pope (himself a Catholic) to say of the area:

Where London's column, pointing at the skies,
 Like a tall bully, lifts the head, and lies.
– Moral Essays, Epistle iii. line 339 (1733–1734).

The words blaming Catholics were chiselled out with Catholic Emancipation in 1830.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monument_to_the_Great_Fire_of_London

Red
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Mister Fantastic
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« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2017, 06:52:57 am »

But will it be for much longer?

No.

Now the Guardian columnist has shown us how evil the man was I expect the government will have it removed next week.

Or

Yes.

No one with half a brain takes a blind bit of notice what these man-student, tosspot Guardian columnists write. Maybe one person does. Grin
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Dr Taj Hargey, Chairman, Muslim Education Centre Oxford :
No, but... I've just mentioned that, we have a one vocabulary in private and we have another vocabulary for the public domain, and that's why you don't hear it because you're the public domain.
mikado
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« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2017, 07:45:27 am »

One thing that is very noticeable is that we have quite a few prominent places and buildings celebrating military victories over the French.  This is quite clearly racially discriminatory and casts us in a bad light as a nation.  We should of course be celebrating all our victories, rather than just those over the French.  So for example we should:

- rename Admiralty Arch "Armada Arch"
- rename London City Airport "Battle of Britain Airport"
- rename Hampstead Heath "Rorke's Drift Heath"

And such like.  And not to forget

- rename Parliament Square to "Brexit Square"
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ymrader
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« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2017, 10:23:42 am »

One thing that is very noticeable is that we have quite a few prominent places and buildings celebrating military victories over the French.  This is quite clearly racially discriminatory and casts us in a bad light as a nation.  We should of course be celebrating all our victories, rather than just those over the French.  So for example we should:

- rename Admiralty Arch "Armada Arch"
- rename London City Airport "Battle of Britain Airport"
- rename Hampstead Heath "Rorke's Drift Heath"

And such like.  And not to forget

- rename Parliament Square to "Brexit Square"

There's a Lenin heed across the road from me and a statue honouring KGB/nkvd agents who died.
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Alte Dame, Alte Dame
Hertha BSC, so schön ist dein Name!
Die Farben Blau-Weiß,
die Trikots gestreift,
im Herzen weht nur eins:
Unsere Fahne!
everso
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MR. PHILLIPS


« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2017, 11:31:21 am »

There's a Lenin heed across the road from me and a statue honouring KGB/nkvd agents who died.

Will they be torn down?  Or will they be left there because they're part of Germany's history? 
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everso
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MR. PHILLIPS


« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2017, 11:32:10 am »

One thing that is very noticeable is that we have quite a few prominent places and buildings celebrating military victories over the French.  This is quite clearly racially discriminatory and casts us in a bad light as a nation.  We should of course be celebrating all our victories, rather than just those over the French.  So for example we should:

- rename Admiralty Arch "Armada Arch"
- rename London City Airport "Battle of Britain Airport"
- rename Hampstead Heath "Rorke's Drift Heath"

And such like.  And not to forget

- rename Parliament Square to "Brexit Square"

'Brexit Square'.  Grin
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everso
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MR. PHILLIPS


« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2017, 11:37:18 am »

I don't think the tourist industry would care much, Nelson's Column is one of the least interesting of London's monuments.

One option could be to take Nelson off and replace him with someone or something else, we needn't take down the whole thing. It could be like the fourth plinth, every year we would put something different on top of it.

Interestingly, it wouldn't be the first time a major London monument has been defaced in the interests of political correctness, Monument itself was amended 150 years after its construction:

The Latin words "Sed Furor Papisticus Qui Tamdiu Patravit Nondum Restingvitur" (but Popish frenzy, which wrought such horrors, is not yet quenched) were added to the end of the inscription on the orders of the Court of Aldermen in 1681 during the foment of the Popish Plot.[2] Text on the east side originally falsely blamed Roman Catholics for the fire ("burning of this protestant city, begun and carried on by the treachery and malice of the popish faction"), which prompted Alexander Pope (himself a Catholic) to say of the area:

Where London's column, pointing at the skies,
 Like a tall bully, lifts the head, and lies.
– Moral Essays, Epistle iii. line 339 (1733–1734).

The words blaming Catholics were chiselled out with Catholic Emancipation in 1830.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monument_to_the_Great_Fire_of_London

Red


I've climbed the Monument three times - twice as a kid and once as an adult.  I'll never do it again as I now have a fear of spiral staircases.  Cheesy
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vanceen
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« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2017, 11:50:22 am »

If there's no Nelson's Column, how will anyone explain how tall a thing is?
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mikado
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a Nineteenth Century pseudo-Oriental nightmare


« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2017, 12:16:40 pm »

If there's no Nelson's Column, how will anyone explain how tall a thing is?

The official engineering unit of height is the double decker bus.

Other official units are:

length - football field
volume - Olympic swimming pool
weight - African elephant

Occasionally people try to propose other units but it's very much frowned upon.
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Mister Fantastic
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« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2017, 12:44:55 pm »

'Brexit Square'.  Grin

Great. And a statue off the Moggmeister with his top hat on laughing at the London, liberal elitists.


Perfect.
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Dr Taj Hargey, Chairman, Muslim Education Centre Oxford :
No, but... I've just mentioned that, we have a one vocabulary in private and we have another vocabulary for the public domain, and that's why you don't hear it because you're the public domain.
Snotty
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Science Fiction rules,you know it makes sense


« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2017, 06:11:13 am »

Pull the white supremacist statue down,the right thing to do Cool
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everso
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MR. PHILLIPS


« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2017, 06:45:01 am »

Pull the white supremacist statue down,the right thing to do Cool

What rubbish.  Are you suggesting we alter history books too? 
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Snotty
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Science Fiction rules,you know it makes sense


« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2017, 06:58:33 am »

What rubbish.  Are you suggesting we alter history books too? 

No,just don't think we should honour a white supremecist!
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everso
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MR. PHILLIPS


« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2017, 07:16:00 am »

No,just don't think we should honour a white supremecist!

But what you're suggesting is that history be judged by how we think today.  I understand your point of view, but it's interfering with history to take down the statue.  Should his name be wiped from history books? And thereby all mention of the Battle of Trafalgar?  If so, then there are so many other people whose names should be removed from history books, and have their statues and commemorations torn down.

And what about all those US presidents who owned slaves (they didn't like the fact that they owned them though  Roll Eyes)  So should their names be wiped from history and their statues pulled down along with Lee's?

The idea of slavery is abhorrent, but how people thought and behaved 200 years ago can't be altered, no matter how much we disagree with it.

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ymrader
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« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2017, 08:56:42 am »

Will they be torn down?  Or will they be left there because they're part of Germany's history? 

Depends how much the Russians piss off the Germans  Cheesy

It's part of the old forbidden zone where the KGB tortured people n shit.
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Alte Dame, Alte Dame
Hertha BSC, so schön ist dein Name!
Die Farben Blau-Weiß,
die Trikots gestreift,
im Herzen weht nur eins:
Unsere Fahne!
everso
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MR. PHILLIPS


« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2017, 10:33:53 am »

Depends how much the Russians piss off the Germans  Cheesy

It's part of the old forbidden zone where the KGB tortured people n shit.

And therefore part of Germany's history. 
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Mister Fantastic
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« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2017, 11:13:56 am »

The Guardian will be asking for the Quran to be banned next. Roll Eyes

Especially with all the violence it has helped incite in the last few years...and all that. Wink

Like I said...no one with half a brain takes notice of Guardian columnists. Wink
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Dr Taj Hargey, Chairman, Muslim Education Centre Oxford :
No, but... I've just mentioned that, we have a one vocabulary in private and we have another vocabulary for the public domain, and that's why you don't hear it because you're the public domain.
Red Herring
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« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2017, 12:15:47 pm »

I find the whole practice of putting up statues to people nauseating, a rational society should have no truck with personality cults.

We mock North Korea for the cult of Kim, yet we carry portraits of the queen in our pockets, and put a picture of a war criminal on our £5 notes.

Red
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Red Herring
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« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2017, 12:23:21 pm »

I've climbed the Monument three times - twice as a kid and once as an adult.  I'll never do it again as I now have a fear of spiral staircases.  Cheesy

Hi Ev,

Do you think it was wrong of them to remove the inscription that blamed the Catholics for the Fire of London?

Red
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vanceen
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« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2017, 01:58:03 pm »

The official engineering unit of height is the double decker bus.

Other official units are:

length - football field
volume - Olympic swimming pool
weight - African elephant

Occasionally people try to propose other units but it's very much frowned upon.

I'll always think of the height of St. Paul's in Nelson's Column units. Double decker buses? Bah.
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