The Great World Debate
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
July 20, 2018, 04:54:39 pm

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
R.I.P Nick. OLF died 13 October 2016.
119326 Posts in 5710 Topics by 86 Members
Latest Member: Dutch Rosie
* Home Help Login Register
+  The Great World Debate
|-+  The Chamber
| |-+  The Comfy Chair of Conversation
| | |-+  Brexit -- UK leaving the European Union
| | | |-+  Jacob Rees-Mogg
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 Print
Author Topic: Jacob Rees-Mogg  (Read 2357 times)
TGK
Full Member
***
Posts: 421

Sex, Drugs and Sausage rolls.


« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2018, 09:54:44 am »

Where do you live, TGK? Where have you lived? What do you do for a living? Just curious.



Am I being 'groomed'?

Currently Reading, have lived in Oldham and Blackpool.

By day I make the internet work (purely on a 1's and 0's basis), by night I dress up and fight crime. Or I'm asleep. Mostly asleep if I'm honest.

Logged
Weyland
Administrator
Hero Member
******
Posts: 23222



« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2018, 10:31:21 am »

Am I being 'groomed'?

Currently Reading, have lived in Oldham and Blackpool.

By day I make the internet work (purely on a 1's and 0's basis), by night I dress up and fight crime. Or I'm asleep. Mostly asleep if I'm honest.

Groomed for what, I hafta ask?

I dare say you're one of the GWD Anciens, which I am not. I just keep the place running, on Ym's server. I like to know who I'm talking to is all.

Useless Information Department: I used to use TDK cassettes.
Logged

"Theresa May’s determination to pursue hard Brexit = stepping off a 10m diving board without checking there is any water in the pool."
First-Time-Ever Department: The UK is negotiating with the rest of the EU in order to secure a worse trade deal than we already have.
ymrader
Administrator
Hero Member
******
Posts: 55510



« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2018, 11:13:24 am »

This is like trying to nail jelly to a ceiling.

On the one hand we have Weyland saying that the Tories have been in charge since 1979 and that's why we are in such a mess.

Then we have YMrader saying things have got so much better since the seventies.

All the while you both seem to be trying to agree with each other.

I hope you get the cultural reference when I say "to me, to you".



In terms of regeneration, tech, considerable of course things are better. Newcastle is as alluded to a much better place to live now, albeit a massive caller centre/shrine to consumerism.

Privatisation hasn't worked, it hasn't brought improvements through competition or benefits to consumers. Labour carried the tory torch with pfi. Look how well that is doing.

There seems to be a fear of nationalisation being a symptom of the dark 70s. It's 40 years later. The unions have all but been destroyed.

There are other ways, just not in myopic ukland.





Logged

Alte Dame, Alte Dame
Hertha BSC, so schön ist dein Name!
Die Farben Blau-Weiß,
die Trikots gestreift,
im Herzen weht nur eins:
Unsere Fahne!
Dutch Rosie
Full Member
***
Posts: 254


« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2018, 11:33:25 am »

Years ago you also told me you think Portmeirion is a shithole, Rosie. I dare say you're not fond of Assen either. Too much negativity.

Wrang side a the watta. Incurable.

Portmeirion is an insult to good taste, simply absurd, whatever side of the water one comes from. Assen is indeed a very poor county town. Fortunately we have the lovely city of Groningen a short distance away to compensate,
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 12:07:32 pm by Dutch Rosie » Logged
Weyland
Administrator
Hero Member
******
Posts: 23222



« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2018, 02:06:34 pm »

Portmeirion is an insult to good taste, simply absurd, whatever side of the water one comes from. Assen is indeed a very poor county town. Fortunately we have the lovely city of Groningen a short distance away to compensate,

I'm not sure Groningen is in the canon, mind. Harlingen is, of course, and Franeker. But Groningen? . . . . .
Logged

"Theresa May’s determination to pursue hard Brexit = stepping off a 10m diving board without checking there is any water in the pool."
First-Time-Ever Department: The UK is negotiating with the rest of the EU in order to secure a worse trade deal than we already have.
TGK
Full Member
***
Posts: 421

Sex, Drugs and Sausage rolls.


« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2018, 04:56:22 pm »

In terms of regeneration, tech, considerable of course things are better. Newcastle is as alluded to a much better place to live now, albeit a massive caller centre/shrine to consumerism.

Privatisation hasn't worked, it hasn't brought improvements through competition or benefits to consumers. Labour carried the tory torch with pfi. Look how well that is doing.

There seems to be a fear of nationalisation being a symptom of the dark 70s. It's 40 years later. The unions have all but been destroyed.

There are other ways, just not in myopic ukland.







I'm not sure if you are saying this is a good or bad thing.

It's things like this...

"Newcastle is as alluded to a much better place to live now, albeit a massive caller centre/shrine to consumerism."

A shrine to consumerism. I get the sentiment but fucking hell.

There seems to be a la-la land quality about some posts here, we want to go back to the 'nice' people, and the 'nice' way they used to do things, money was no object and an electrician couldn't lift a box because he was an electrician not a box lifter, and we have no precedent for that being a success, and in fact they almost ruined the country the last time we let them try. But it's okay because we can moan about the nasty Tories, whilst they imperfectly improve things, but we just know it could be done better. No facts, no precedent, we just know.

Logged
TGK
Full Member
***
Posts: 421

Sex, Drugs and Sausage rolls.


« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2018, 06:32:44 pm »

Groomed for what, I hafta ask?

I dare say you're one of the GWD Anciens, which I am not. I just keep the place running, on Ym's server. I like to know who I'm talking to is all.

Useless Information Department: I used to use TDK cassettes.

Bum sex.

These are the sort of details that, according to the latest advice, you aren't supposed to give out on the internet.
Logged
ymrader
Administrator
Hero Member
******
Posts: 55510



« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2018, 03:43:22 am »

I'm not sure if you are saying this is a good or bad thing.

It's things like this...

"Newcastle is as alluded to a much better place to live now, albeit a massive caller centre/shrine to consumerism."

A shrine to consumerism. I get the sentiment but fucking hell.

There seems to be a la-la land quality about some posts here, we want to go back to the 'nice' people, and the 'nice' way they used to do things, money was no object and an electrician couldn't lift a box because he was an electrician not a box lifter, and we have no precedent for that being a success, and in fact they almost ruined the country the last time we let them try. But it's okay because we can moan about the nasty Tories, whilst they imperfectly improve things, but we just know it could be done better. No facts, no precedent, we just know.



Why does my answer have to be binary good or bad ? it's more complicated than that.

So aside from a story about an electrician, Do you think selling off everything the Tories can their grubby hands on has been a success ? Newcastle is powered by credit cards snapping up shiny things, I think this is a bad thing.

The Tories shut down regeneration development agencies for business led coffee mornings. They hold no value in improving the lives of the people who need it the most.

Ps I also blamed Labour which you have conveniently omitted.
Logged

Alte Dame, Alte Dame
Hertha BSC, so schön ist dein Name!
Die Farben Blau-Weiß,
die Trikots gestreift,
im Herzen weht nur eins:
Unsere Fahne!
Dutch Rosie
Full Member
***
Posts: 254


« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2018, 03:24:12 am »

I'm not sure if you are saying this is a good or bad thing.

It's things like this...

"Newcastle is as alluded to a much better place to live now, albeit a massive caller centre/shrine to consumerism."

A shrine to consumerism. I get the sentiment but fucking hell.

There seems to be a la-la land quality about some posts here, we want to go back to the 'nice' people, and the 'nice' way they used to do things, money was no object and an electrician couldn't lift a box because he was an electrician not a box lifter, and we have no precedent for that being a success, and in fact they almost ruined the country the last time we let them try. But it's okay because we can moan about the nasty Tories, whilst they imperfectly improve things, but we just know it could be done better. No facts, no precedent, we just know.



Well, thank god we got rid of those damned unions eh? Instead of "wrecking the country", workers themselves are now being wrecked.  On BBC this morning, a new book out written by a journalist who spent 6 months working in the lowest paid jobs in the UK: 60 P per hour, and a black mark on your file if you have a dag off due to illness. 6 black marks means you get the sack. And the employee who earned those 60 p per hour had to threaten the agency with legal action in order to finally get her pay. The UK seems to me to be a hell-hole these days for ordinary working people who are forced to buy properties due to a lack of social housing or to  move from one expensive private let to another due to "no blame evictions."
« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 03:31:46 am by Dutch Rosie » Logged
Dutch Rosie
Full Member
***
Posts: 254


« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2018, 03:28:49 am »

I'm not sure Groningen is in the canon, mind. Harlingen is, of course, and Franeker. But Groningen? . . . . .

Dordrecht, Deventer and beautiful Zutphen should be in there as well, or would you prefer Lego-land and the Efteling? Grin
Logged
Weyland
Administrator
Hero Member
******
Posts: 23222



« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2018, 09:15:44 am »

Dordrecht, Deventer and beautiful Zutphen should be in there as well, or would you prefer Lego-land and the Efteling? Grin

In fact any Hansa town. Visited Kampen on the way back to Arnhem. Delightful place. They even have a replica Hansa kog there.
Logged

"Theresa May’s determination to pursue hard Brexit = stepping off a 10m diving board without checking there is any water in the pool."
First-Time-Ever Department: The UK is negotiating with the rest of the EU in order to secure a worse trade deal than we already have.
TGK
Full Member
***
Posts: 421

Sex, Drugs and Sausage rolls.


« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2018, 04:12:39 pm »

Why does my answer have to be binary good or bad ? it's more complicated than that.

So aside from a story about an electrician, Do you think selling off everything the Tories can their grubby hands on has been a success ? Newcastle is powered by credit cards snapping up shiny things, I think this is a bad thing.

The Tories shut down regeneration development agencies for business led coffee mornings. They hold no value in improving the lives of the people who need it the most.

Ps I also blamed Labour which you have conveniently omitted.

It's the lack of an alternative and workable plan that bugs me I think.

Do I think selling off nationalised industries has been a uniform success. No I don't, but I also remember 'British xxxxxxx' whether that 'xxxxxx' was 'Leyland', 'Rail' or 'Steel' not being a watchword for excellence either. Quite the opposite in fact.

All you have offered thus far, basically sounds like....."it's better, but it's not as good as it could be. I can't offer up an alternative plan where I can make it better, or a historical precedent where it actually worked better, but I just know it would be better without the nasty Tories". It's easy to moan. If you moaned about Labour as well, it makes your lack of an alternative all the more glaring.

Talk me through what you would have done differently, and we can debate it.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 07:07:50 pm by TGK » Logged
ymrader
Administrator
Hero Member
******
Posts: 55510



« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2018, 04:05:01 am »

It's the lack of an alternative and workable plan that bugs me I think.

Do I think selling off nationalised industries has been a uniform success. No I don't, but I also remember 'British xxxxxxx' whether that 'xxxxxx' was 'Leyland', 'Rail' or 'Steel' not being a watchword for excellence either. Quite the opposite in fact.

All you have offered thus far, basically sounds like....."it's better, but it's not as good as it could be. I can't offer up an alternative plan where I can make it better, or a historical precedent where it actually worked better, but I just know it would be better without the nasty Tories". It's easy to moan. If you moaned about Labour as well, it makes your lack of an alternative all the more glaring.

Talk me through what you would have done differently, and we can debate it.

Deutsche Bahn, one shareholder the government
Energie and Wasser  my local energy company is state owned.
MBS, my bank is owned by the state.

How's that for a glaring alternative
Logged

Alte Dame, Alte Dame
Hertha BSC, so schön ist dein Name!
Die Farben Blau-Weiß,
die Trikots gestreift,
im Herzen weht nur eins:
Unsere Fahne!
ymrader
Administrator
Hero Member
******
Posts: 55510



« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2018, 04:07:55 am »

It's the lack of an alternative and workable plan that bugs me I think.

Do I think selling off nationalised industries has been a uniform success. No I don't, but I also remember 'British xxxxxxx' whether that 'xxxxxx' was 'Leyland', 'Rail' or 'Steel' not being a watchword for excellence either. Quite the opposite in fact.

All you have offered thus far, basically sounds like....."it's better, but it's not as good as it could be. I can't offer up an alternative plan where I can make it better, or a historical precedent where it actually worked better, but I just know it would be better without the nasty Tories". It's easy to moan. If you moaned about Labour as well, it makes your lack of an alternative all the more glaring.

Talk me through what you would have done differently, and we can debate it.

The lack up an alternative was not there as i wasnt aware you had decided it was up to me..

Logged

Alte Dame, Alte Dame
Hertha BSC, so schön ist dein Name!
Die Farben Blau-Weiß,
die Trikots gestreift,
im Herzen weht nur eins:
Unsere Fahne!
Weyland
Administrator
Hero Member
******
Posts: 23222



« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2018, 05:00:41 am »



Says it all.
Logged

"Theresa May’s determination to pursue hard Brexit = stepping off a 10m diving board without checking there is any water in the pool."
First-Time-Ever Department: The UK is negotiating with the rest of the EU in order to secure a worse trade deal than we already have.
ben wedge
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 8341



« Reply #40 on: March 11, 2018, 07:53:44 pm »

Deutsche Bahn, one shareholder the government
Energie and Wasser  my local energy company is state owned.
MBS, my bank is owned by the state.

How's that for a glaring alternative

Deutschland uber alles
Logged

Lone Ranger
TGK
Full Member
***
Posts: 421

Sex, Drugs and Sausage rolls.


« Reply #41 on: March 12, 2018, 05:26:44 am »

Deutsche Bahn, one shareholder the government
Energie and Wasser  my local energy company is state owned.
MBS, my bank is owned by the state.

How's that for a glaring alternative

Fair enough. I probably don't know enough about any of those enterprises to comment meaningfully at the minute, I'll look into it.

Has to be said, different countries, different cultures. You haven't referenced any state owned successes in the UK. There may be something in that.
Logged
TGK
Full Member
***
Posts: 421

Sex, Drugs and Sausage rolls.


« Reply #42 on: March 12, 2018, 05:29:56 am »

The lack up an alternative was not there as i wasnt aware you had decided it was up to me..



That's actually made me laugh. We're debating, if you are stating a case that things aren't great, it's not entirely unreasonable to ask how it could be done better. Please believe me when I tell you that I don't believe the future of the western economic model rests entirely on your shoulders, but I don't think it's too huge a reach to ask your opinion?
Logged
Dutch Rosie
Full Member
***
Posts: 254


« Reply #43 on: March 12, 2018, 05:43:34 am »

Deutschland uber alles

Cheap shot.
Logged
Weyland
Administrator
Hero Member
******
Posts: 23222



« Reply #44 on: March 12, 2018, 06:13:15 am »

Fair enough. I probably don't know enough about any of those enterprises to comment meaningfully at the minute, I'll look into it.

Has to be said, different countries, different cultures. You haven't referenced any state owned successes in the UK. There may be something in that.

Arriva (buses and trains). Their subsidies from the UK taxpayer keep the fares down -- in Germany. Belongs to Deutsche Bahn. Many ex-UK-state-owned companies in the UK belong to other states. There's a message there somewhere.
Logged

"Theresa May’s determination to pursue hard Brexit = stepping off a 10m diving board without checking there is any water in the pool."
First-Time-Ever Department: The UK is negotiating with the rest of the EU in order to secure a worse trade deal than we already have.
Weyland
Administrator
Hero Member
******
Posts: 23222



« Reply #45 on: March 12, 2018, 06:15:14 am »

Cheap shot.

Maybe it's meant to be a complement.
Logged

"Theresa May’s determination to pursue hard Brexit = stepping off a 10m diving board without checking there is any water in the pool."
First-Time-Ever Department: The UK is negotiating with the rest of the EU in order to secure a worse trade deal than we already have.
ymrader
Administrator
Hero Member
******
Posts: 55510



« Reply #46 on: March 12, 2018, 07:05:25 am »

Fair enough. I probably don't know enough about any of those enterprises to comment meaningfully at the minute, I'll look into it.

Has to be said, different countries, different cultures. You haven't referenced any state owned successes in the UK. There may be something in that.

East coast line, state took it over, got it profitable and then the Tories flogged it again
Logged

Alte Dame, Alte Dame
Hertha BSC, so schön ist dein Name!
Die Farben Blau-Weiß,
die Trikots gestreift,
im Herzen weht nur eins:
Unsere Fahne!
Dutch Rosie
Full Member
***
Posts: 254


« Reply #47 on: March 12, 2018, 07:47:12 am »

Maybe it's meant to be a complement.

Possibly, but I didn't know Ben was a Nazi sympathizer.


Since World War II and the fall of Nazi Germany, only the third stanza has been used as the national anthem. The stanza's beginning, "Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit" ("Unity and Justice and Freedom") is considered the unofficial national motto of Germany
Logged
Weyland
Administrator
Hero Member
******
Posts: 23222



« Reply #48 on: March 12, 2018, 08:45:03 am »

Possibly, but I didn't know Ben was a Nazi sympathizer.

Since World War II and the fall of Nazi Germany, only the third stanza has been used as the national anthem. The stanza's beginning, "Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit" ("Unity and Justice and Freedom") is considered the unofficial national motto of Germany

I dare say 'über alles' was in the anthem long before Hitler was in power.

Why should you think Ben was any such thing?
Logged

"Theresa May’s determination to pursue hard Brexit = stepping off a 10m diving board without checking there is any water in the pool."
First-Time-Ever Department: The UK is negotiating with the rest of the EU in order to secure a worse trade deal than we already have.
TGK
Full Member
***
Posts: 421

Sex, Drugs and Sausage rolls.


« Reply #49 on: March 12, 2018, 09:20:00 am »

Possibly, but I didn't know Ben was a Nazi sympathizer.


Since World War II and the fall of Nazi Germany, only the third stanza has been used as the national anthem. The stanza's beginning, "Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit" ("Unity and Justice and Freedom") is considered the unofficial national motto of Germany


Can't say I really understood Ben's post, but that's a hurtful leap.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.075 seconds with 20 queries.