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Author Topic: Libya Déjà vu  (Read 1513 times)
Suheil
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« on: August 02, 2016, 05:17:46 am »

U.S. warplanes launch bombing campaign on Islamic State in Libya

"
U.S. planes bombed Islamic State targets in Libya on Monday, responding to the U.N.-backed government's request to help push the militants from their former stronghold of Sirte in what U.S. officials described as the start of a sustained campaign against the extremist group in the city.

Forces allied with Seraj have been battling Islamic State in Sirte - the home town of former dictator Muammar Gaddafi - since May.

The militants seized the Mediterranean coastal city last year, making it their most important base outside Syria and Iraq. But they are now besieged in a few square kilometers of the center, where they hold strategic sites, including the Ouagadougou conference hall, the central hospital and the university."

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-libya-security-idUSKCN10C2NF

Libya was left to rot under Islamic factions associated with Qatar, the Islamic Brotherhood of Turkey, Saudi Arabia Wahabis and lately Egypt-United Arab Emirates secularists backed by Haftar's army.

The point here is that the secularists won the elections fair but the said International Community refused to accept the outcome and managed to create a UN backed government that rules over nothing but was legal enough for the US/France to give it mandate for bombing Libya.

Who would object to bombing the said Islamic State, I sure don't?


Let us make a rerun ofr the Libyan story

The UN has mandated available forces (NATO was available) to protect the Libyan civilians against the vengeance of Qaddafi (we all cheered). The US leading from obscurity let the French, the UK and an Arab alliance to bomb the hell out of Qaddafi forces, and in a TV theatrics the Islamic Mujaheddin (Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey) stormed Tripoli and won Libya!. The Libyan oil fields were always secured by the Corporate private army. Qaddafi  was shafted and this was the end of the Libyan story!

The Libyans after fighting between Islamic factions, Libyan tribes have decided bring Libya to democracy and against all the odds the Islamist lost to the secularists thus the Libyan Parliament was born. The only legal institution in Libya at present is the Libyan Parliament!
The Islamist refused the election outcome and went to establish their own government in Tripoli (government 1). The Parliament failing to establish its own government through Majority vote established its own government (government 2). The story thickens by the fact that the UN backed by the West were able to instate another government that has little to do with Libya or the real forces on the ground (thus government 3 was born) , has been given all the legality by media coverage and a mandate to bomb Libya!

 Déjà vu




« Last Edit: August 02, 2016, 05:45:20 am by Suheil » Logged

A Light Weaver
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« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2016, 01:22:59 pm »

Hurrah!
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drippinhun
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« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2016, 06:35:58 pm »

I'm proud to see my government come to the aid of Libya's government. Where ever ISIS is, we must exterminate those cockroaches.
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Suheil
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« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2016, 01:21:37 am »

I'm proud to see my government come to the aid of Libya's government. Where ever ISIS is, we must exterminate those cockroaches.

The point here is that the secularists won the elections fair but the said International Community refused to accept the outcome and managed to create a UN backed government that rules over nothing but was legal enough for the US/France to give it mandate for bombing Libya.

Feeding terror and fighting terror is the cycle for the US, UK, France and NATO to foment chaos for geopolitical hegemony. There is no mandate for the US to bomb Libya other than to protect civilians from Qaddafi's vengeance (surprise Qaddafi is dead) .  The CIA mujaheddin took over Tripoli and made Libya what is infested with Islamist within the West's crazy concept of "good terrorists-bad terrorists. The Libyans voted for secularism, the Libyan Parliament is the only legal entity in Libya but the US/UN went on to make a government that has no legality or power other than the excuse for a mandate to bomb Libya. Read Hillary's now famous emails for more information on the US culpability in being the source of the terror it is now hilariously fights.     

The river always stays on course, Libya will remain Libya and the US will lose this one in the fact that Imperialism has no credibility or trust in saving souls.

 

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Weyland
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« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2016, 02:07:07 am »

The point here is that the secularists won the elections fair but the said International Community refused to accept the outcome and managed to create a UN backed government that rules over nothing but was legal enough for the US/France to give it mandate for bombing Libya.

Feeding terror and fighting terror is the cycle for the US, UK, France and NATO to foment chaos for geopolitical hegemony. There is no mandate for the US to bomb Libya other than to protect civilians from Qaddafi's vengeance (surprise Qaddafi is dead) .  The CIA mujaheddin took over Tripoli and made Libya what is infested with Islamist within the West's crazy concept of "good terrorists-bad terrorists. The Libyans voted for secularism, the Libyan Parliament is the only legal entity in Libya but the US/UN went on to make a government that has no legality or power other than the excuse for a mandate to bomb Libya. Read Hillary's now famous emails for more information on the US culpability in being the source of the terror it is now hilariously fights.     

The river always stays on course, Libya will remain Libya and the US will lose this one in the fact that Imperialism has no credibility or trust in saving souls.

Assuming for a moment -- just assuming -- that your ravings are in fact accurate, and not just hilariously fights, who's going to rid Libya, or anywhere else, of the infestation of Islamists?
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Suheil
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« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2016, 02:18:03 am »

Assuming for a moment -- just assuming -- that your ravings are in fact accurate, and not just hilariously fights, who's going to rid Libya, or anywhere else, of the infestation of Islamists?

Ends debate, regardless the above post, is factual, raving is your input. 
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Weyland
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« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2016, 02:22:08 am »

Ends debate, regardless the above post, is factual, raving is your input. 

So who's going to rid Libya, or anywhere else, of the infestation of Islamists?
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Suheil
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« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2016, 03:14:23 am »

So who's going to rid Libya, or anywhere else, of the infestation of Islamists?

Libyans, Egyptians, Algerian, Chadians, Sudanese, Tunisians have a higher stake in the spread of Daesh and the spread of savagery. The Egyptians are doing good work in fighting Daesh in the East with Libyan Hafter's army. The Libyan tribes are at the core of the fight, the Qaddafi followers and yes the Europeans without the Imperial breath can do wonders to stabilize the region i.e. Italy and Germany. The odds are against Daesh and the Imperials use of state enabled savagery. Political Islam and its handle Wahabi savagery is in inevitable defeat.

What the US can do is to stop enabling Turkey (Turkey has a change of heart after the US initiated coup), Qatar, Wahabi Saudi Arabia in systematically destroying the Middle East for an Imperial project that clearly has failed. Imperialism can never change its spots but adds another layer f conflict and misery to the world.

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Weyland
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« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2016, 03:37:16 am »

Libyans, Egyptians, Algerian, Chadians, Sudanese, Tunisians have a higher stake in the spread of Daesh and the spread of savagery. The Egyptians are doing good work in fighting Daesh in the East with Libyan Hafter's army. The Libyan tribes are at the core of the fight, the Qaddafi followers and yes the Europeans without the Imperial breath can do wonders to stabilize the region i.e. Italy and Germany. The odds are against Daesh and the Imperials use of state enabled savagery. Political Islam and its handle Wahabi savagery is in inevitable defeat.

What the US can do is to stop enabling Turkey (Turkey has a change of heart after the US initiated coup), Qatar, Wahabi Saudi Arabia in systematically destroying the Middle East for an Imperial project that clearly has failed. Imperialism can never change its spots but adds another layer f conflict and misery to the world.

OK. So you want Germany and Italy to do it. I dare say you'll have to ask them very nicely. Meanwhile . . . . .
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Suheil
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« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2016, 03:42:18 am »

OK. So you want Germany and Italy to do it. I dare say you'll have to ask them very nicely. Meanwhile . . . . .

I think it is in the Italian and German have a genuine interest to stabilize the area and to stop the flow of refugees. I am not advocating military intervention but more of logistical and financial support.

« Last Edit: August 03, 2016, 03:57:36 am by Suheil » Logged

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Weyland
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« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2016, 04:06:23 am »

I think it is in the Italian and German have a genuine interest to stabilize the area and to stop the flow of refugees. I am not advocating military intervention but more of logistical and financial support.

I'm sure the whole world would LOVE Libyans, Egyptians, Algerians, Chadians, Sudanese, Tunisians, Iraqis, Syrians, and the rest of the ME, NA, and the sub-Continent to get rid of the Islamist plague. Nothing happening yet, except the Kurds with considerable help from NATO. 
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Suheil
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« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2016, 04:50:03 am »

I'm sure the whole world would LOVE Libyans, Egyptians, Algerians, Chadians, Sudanese, Tunisians, Iraqis, Syrians, and the rest of the ME, NA, and the sub-Continent to get rid of the Islamist plague. Nothing happening yet, except the Kurds with considerable help from NATO.  


This is what you are being told, with the the ongoing liberation of Mosul Iraq will be practically free of Daesh while Syria is fighting the most crucial fight in Aleppo with the Russian and Iranian support. The Kurds in Syria with the American support and tacitly with the Russian approval is partly a wishing well for the Americans to establish some leverage in Syria but given the the Turks, the Iranians, the Iraqis and Syrian will not allow the establishment of a Kurdish state at present the Americans are playing in over time taking advantage of the weakened Iraqi and Syrian central government. The Kurds in Syria are a small minority of 1 million out of 26 million Syrians practically integrated within Syria and without any geographical land continuity to make an entity of their own. In that the Syrian Kurds will have a say in the future of Syria there is no doubt but it stops at that.

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drippinhun
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« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2016, 05:14:09 am »

Elections brought the Brotherhood to the forefront. Sometimes the voters need to have their results negated. Arabs need strong leaders to control their emotional and irrational populations.
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Suheil
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« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2016, 05:19:35 am »

Elections brought the Brotherhood to the forefront. Sometimes the voters need to have their results negated. Arabs need strong leaders to control their emotional and irrational populations.

"Legislative elections were held in Libya on 25 June 2014 for the Council of Deputies. Whilst all candidates ran as independents, the elections saw nationalist and liberal factions win the majority of seats, with Islamist groups being reduced to only around 30 seats. Election turnout was very low at 18%."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Council_of_Deputies_election,_2014

« Last Edit: August 03, 2016, 05:23:13 am by Suheil » Logged

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Suheil
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« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2016, 05:27:40 am »

Elections brought the Brotherhood to the forefront. Sometimes the voters need to have their results negated. Arabs need strong leaders to control their emotional and irrational populations.

Some call it independent spirit but Imperialists seem to have a way with words with those who can not control!
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« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2016, 08:16:32 am »

This is what you are being told, with the the ongoing liberation of Mosul Iraq will be practically free of Daesh while Syria is fighting the most crucial fight in Aleppo with the Russian and Iranian support. The Kurds in Syria with the American support and tacitly with the Russian approval is partly a wishing well for the Americans to establish some leverage in Syria but given the the Turks, the Iranians, the Iraqis and Syrian will not allow the establishment of a Kurdish state at present the Americans are playing in over time taking advantage of the weakened Iraqi and Syrian central government. The Kurds in Syria are a small minority of 1 million out of 26 million Syrians practically integrated within Syria and without any geographical land continuity to make an entity of their own. In that the Syrian Kurds will have a say in the future of Syria there is no doubt but it stops at that.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/russias-airstrike-on-a-syrian-hospital-was-no-accident-it-was-a-cold-blooded-attack-a6877046.html

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2016/03/syrian-and-russian-forces-targeting-hospitals-as-a-strategy-of-war/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/15/airstrike-destroys-msf-clinic-northern-syria

http://uk.businessinsider.com/hospital-attacks-syria-russia-2016-2

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/11964301/Twelve-Syria-hospitals-hit-by-airstrikes-as-Russian-jets-bombard-country.html

Take your pick. There are plenty more.

(Kurds (Saladin, for example) are not Arabs. Is that the problem?)
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drippinhun
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« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2016, 04:30:09 pm »


Hamas is backing the Syrian government with the Russians. Therefore, Suheil thinks they can do no wrong.
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Suheil
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A man from the east


« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2016, 01:39:06 am »

Hamas is backing the Syrian government with the Russians. Therefore, Suheil thinks they can do no wrong.

Bursting your bubble, Hamas sided with the Islamist against the Syrian government. Hamas is siding with the Muslim Brotherhood of Turkey and Qatar. Just saying
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« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2016, 01:41:43 am »

I blame The White Man.
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Suheil
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« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2016, 02:17:18 am »


“Syrian and Russian forces have been deliberately attacking health facilities in flagrant violation of international humanitarian law. But what is truly egregious is that wiping out hospitals appears to have become part of their military strategy,”
Source AI link


One:
I am aware of 5 field hospitals being hit by the Syrian and the Russian Air forces in the greater Aleppo siege that intended to end the war on Syria. Aleppo is now completely under the Syrian government control while the Syrians and the Russians have established 8 humanitarian corridors to for civilians to go into safety and for humanitarian supplies to go into the west side of the city (the US/West objected to humanitarian corridors and demanded that the whole humanitarian operation to be carried out by the UN and present humanitarian organization working in the moderate terrorists the West supports).   

Two:
I am also aware the American-French air offensive carried out by the Syrian Democratic Kurdish faction in Manbij (see OP in front page) and aware of at least 3 atrocities against civilians 2 by the Americans and one by the French in vengeance after Nice which killed over 100 Syrians.

Three:
There is an ongoing offensive carried out and supported by the US and its moderate terrorists (Alnussra, Jeish Alislam and head choppers Nur-Aldin Zinki) in the south west of Aleppo to break the siege on Aleppo and to cut the supply line for the Syrian army. 10,000 Islamic terrorists with, tanks  the latest high-tech Tow and Stinger air missiles are being used.

No one is innocent in this war, nothing justify the killings but for the pain to stop Syria should be won. I side with Syria

« Last Edit: August 04, 2016, 03:59:16 am by Suheil » Logged

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Suheil
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« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2016, 02:24:50 am »

I blame The White Man.

Mindset has no color Nazis were white Christians but to my knowledge no one called them white, Christians or Germans. Imperialism is a sick supremacist mindset that lasted much longer than Nazism and has done way more harm to the world than the Nazis.

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Weyland
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« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2016, 03:10:43 am »

“Syrian and Russian forces have been deliberately attacking health facilities in flagrant violation of international humanitarian law. But what is truly egregious is that wiping out hospitals appears to have become part of their military strategy,”
Source AI link

One:
I am aware of 5 field hospitals being hit by the Syrian and the Russian Air forces in the greater Aleppo siege that intended to end the war on Syria. Aleppo is now completely under the Syrian government control while the Syrians and the Russians have established 8 humanitarian corridors to for civilians to go into safety and for humanitarian supplies to go into the west side of the city (the US/West objected to humanitarian corridors and demanded that the whole humanitarian operation to be carried out by the UN and present humanitarian organization working in the moderate terrorists the West supports).

This appears to be closer to the truth: "The UN's Children's Fund (Unicef) said it is "extremely" concerned for the safety of children caught up in violence in the city.
Saad Houry, of the fund, said children make up a third of the population trapped in the siege, and called for unhindered humanitarian access and for children to be protected.
The New York-based Physicians for Human Rights group said the last week of July was the worst week for attacks on medical facilities in the region since the Syrian war began in 2011. In a statement, the group said it has verified six deadly air strikes against hospitals in Aleppo governorate, all perpetrated by Syrian government forces.
Widney Brown of Physicians for Human Rights said: "Destroying hospitals is tantamount to signing thousands of death warrants for people now stranded in eastern Aleppo.
" LINK
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Suheil
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« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2016, 03:30:43 am »

This appears to be closer to the truth: "The UN's Children's Fund (Unicef) said it is "extremely" concerned for the safety of children caught up in violence in the city.
Saad Houry, of the fund, said children make up a third of the population trapped in the siege, and called for unhindered humanitarian access and for children to be protected.
The New York-based Physicians for Human Rights group said the last week of July was the worst week for attacks on medical facilities in the region since the Syrian war began in 2011. In a statement, the group said it has verified six deadly air strikes against hospitals in Aleppo governorate, all perpetrated by Syrian government forces.
Widney Brown of Physicians for Human Rights said: "Destroying hospitals is tantamount to signing thousands of death warrants for people now stranded in eastern Aleppo.
" LINK

The UN at least from the Syrian government position is not to be trusted. The Syrian position is to end the presence of the moderate terrorists in west Aleppo at all costs. The goal of the Syrian government is to bring Aleppo to normal under the government control, under the Syrian sovereignty without any International presence regardless of motive. The point here is a choice between a free Syria or Syria under shady International mandate. The game is over.  
« Last Edit: August 04, 2016, 04:01:08 am by Suheil » Logged

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Weyland
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« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2016, 03:59:09 am »

The UN at least from the Syrian government position is not to be trusted. The Syrian position is to end the presence of the moderate terrorists in west Aleppo at all costs. The goal of the Syrian government is to bring Aleppo to normal under the government control, under the Syrian sovereignty without any International presence regardless of motive. The point here is a choice between a free Syria or Syria under shady International mandate. The game is over. 

Of course the game isn't over. There are still hospitals and children to be bombed, and Assad hasn't managed to kill all of the dissenters yet, even with Russian help. But they're working on it.
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Suheil
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A man from the east


« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2016, 04:07:45 am »

Of course the game isn't over. There are still hospitals and children to be bombed, and Assad hasn't managed to kill all of the dissenters yet, even with Russian help. But they're working on it.

Game is over, half a million Syrian lives wasted on another Imperial ploy in enabling the savages.
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