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Author Topic: Benefits should be paid in vouchers only redeemable for food, clothes or bills  (Read 16603 times)
Myky D
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« on: April 29, 2013, 01:39:05 am »

Not cash.

No booze, cigarettes, or electrical gear. Computers with internet access available for loan, sites available restricted.

Discuss.
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Rosie
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« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2013, 01:59:43 am »

1. Too complex and expensive to administrate.

2. No electrical goods? What about when you need a new washing machine/fridge/cooker?

3. If you have a right to a benefit, it's nobody's business what you spend it on.

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ymrader
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« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2013, 02:37:18 am »

1. Too complex and expensive to administrate.

2. No electrical goods? What about when you need a new washing machine/fridge/cooker?

3. If you have a right to a benefit, it's nobody's business what you spend it on.

Divisive and creates a perceived underclass who are considered incapable of making decisions on buying food by the masses force fed horror stories of lavish benefits lifestyles by the Daily Hate

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/mar/27/food-class-poor-people-stamps?INTCMP=SRCH

"Somewhere between a gastric band and Nigella dribbling cream over goosefat cheesecake – did I make that up? Possibly. Her presentation is ever more hallucinatory – there are those who go to bed early with a bag of chips to keep warm.

In this world of endless gastronomy, the superstar chefs say eat seasonally and simply. Again, this requires dosh. Choice costs. So what so we do for genuinely poor people? We take away even the most basic of choices. We infantilise them. They are not our problem any longer, but charity cases.

In order to treat people like this one must first vilify them. This has been the coalition project from day one: the immorality of those on welfare is the basic recipe. Repeat after me: austerity removes autonomy. We turn the vulnerable into villains, but even the most rabid rightwinger must pretend that little children should be fed."
« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 02:44:56 am by ymrader » Logged

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Weyland
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~~ Thank you, Rafa! ~~


« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2013, 02:50:14 am »

Just heard on R4 that the new Universal Credit system uses an online application form that takes at least 45 minutes to fill in. There's no way to save what you're doing as you go along. IDS gibbers that that's fine -- "Security". Yet another £multi-billion gommint computer system designed by lowest-bid temps, I dare say.
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"Theresa May’s determination to pursue hard Brexit = stepping off a 10-metre diving board without checking there is any water in the pool." -- Paul Mason
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Myky D
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« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2013, 03:04:08 am »

1. Too complex and expensive to administrate.

Facts, figures, please.

2. No electrical goods? What about when you need a new washing machine/fridge/cooker?

Loan.

3. If you have a right to a benefit, it's nobody's business what you spend it on.

It's my money - it's absolutely my business what it's spent on.
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Myky D
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« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2013, 03:05:40 am »

Divisive and creates a perceived underclass who are considered incapable of making decisions on buying food by the masses force fed horror stories of lavish benefits lifestyles by the Daily Hate

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/mar/27/food-class-poor-people-stamps?INTCMP=SRCH

"Somewhere between a gastric band and Nigella dribbling cream over goosefat cheesecake – did I make that up? Possibly. Her presentation is ever more hallucinatory – there are those who go to bed early with a bag of chips to keep warm.

In this world of endless gastronomy, the superstar chefs say eat seasonally and simply. Again, this requires dosh. Choice costs. So what so we do for genuinely poor people? We take away even the most basic of choices. We infantilise them. They are not our problem any longer, but charity cases.

In order to treat people like this one must first vilify them. This has been the coalition project from day one: the immorality of those on welfare is the basic recipe. Repeat after me: austerity removes autonomy. We turn the vulnerable into villains, but even the most rabid rightwinger must pretend that little children should be fed."

I don't see any problem with any of that.

The underclass already exists, and always has. I don't see what the problem is with acknowledging or accepting that.
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Rosie
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« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2013, 03:13:29 am »

You haven't thought this through, have you, Myky?

Who the hell is going to give a loan to somebody whose only income is vouchers? How can they pay back a loan with vouchers?

It most certainly is not our business what people spend their benefits on. We elect a government, who decide on what benefits people have a right to and what form these will be given in.
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ymrader
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« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2013, 03:19:07 am »

I don't see any problem with any of that.

The underclass already exists, and always has. I don't see what the problem is with acknowledging or accepting that.

Its not your money

Your role ends when you give it on as tax

« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 03:20:49 am by ymrader » Logged

Alte Dame, Alte Dame
Hertha BSC, so schön ist dein Name!
Die Farben Blau-Weiß,
die Trikots gestreift,
im Herzen weht nur eins:
Unsere Fahne!
Myky D
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« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2013, 03:27:38 am »

You haven't thought this through, have you, Myky?

Hence me offering it for discussion.

Who the hell is going to give a loan to somebody whose only income is vouchers? How can they pay back a loan with vouchers?

The gobmint will loan them the money, as they currently do. Rules on repayment to be adjusted to reduce their vouchers by a certain amount each payment in recompense.

It most certainly is not our business what people spend their benefits on. We elect a government, who decide on what benefits people have a right to and what form these will be given in.

 ... which makes it my business, because it's my money, and my government. I employ the government.
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Myky D
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« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2013, 03:29:52 am »

Its not your money

Your role ends when you give it on as tax



See above reply to Rosie - it is my money, and I employ the government. It's absolutely my business.
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Rosie
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« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2013, 03:32:28 am »

This is going to be another of those debates where you say fact is fiction because you say so, and that the law of the land is that those whom Myky thinks are pricks are guilty of whatever they are charged with and nice people are not. I can't be bothered.
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Weyland
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« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2013, 03:34:48 am »

See above reply to Rosie - it is my money, and I employ the government. It's absolutely my business.

Ignoring the obviously undemocratic features of our crap electoral system, you elect the government. And then it's up to them. It's called representation.

Unless referenda become much more common here, obviously, which they won't.
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"Theresa May’s determination to pursue hard Brexit = stepping off a 10-metre diving board without checking there is any water in the pool." -- Paul Mason
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Myky D
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« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2013, 03:38:51 am »

Ignoring the obviously undemocratic features of our crap electoral system, you elect the government. And then it's up to them. It's called representation.

Unless referenda become much more common here, obviously, which they won't.

So we should have a referendum on it.

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Rosie
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« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2013, 03:42:17 am »

Best thing for you to do, Myky, is to find a party that agrees with you and vote for them, or start your own, making clear in your manifesto that a cripple on incapacity benefit should never have the cash to use public transport, go on holiday, have drink or a fag, go to the cinema or any other paid event, buy a computer and have access to all the websites that everyone else has.

Why do you want certain sites blocked to welfare recipients anyway? They can just go round to their neighbour's and use theirs, or an internet cafe.
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Myky D
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« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2013, 03:51:31 am »

Best thing for you to do, Myky, is to find a party that agrees with you and vote for them, or start your own, making clear in your manifesto that a cripple on incapacity benefit should never have the cash to use public transport, go on holiday, have drink or a fag, go to the cinema or any other paid event, buy a computer and have access to all the websites that everyone else has.

Why do you want certain sites blocked to welfare recipients anyway? They can just go round to their neighbour's and use theirs, or an internet cafe.

Totally not bothered here.
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everso
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« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2013, 04:06:39 am »

1. Too complex and expensive to administrate.

2. No electrical goods? What about when you need a new washing machine/fridge/cooker?

3. If you have a right to a benefit, it's nobody's business what you spend it on.




Yes, exactly.  And if they choose to spend it on cigarettes, booze or drugs, then they can't complain if there's no money left for food.  If you have to work to a budget you have to make wise choices.
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Weyland
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« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2013, 04:12:34 am »

So we should have a referendum on it.

Peanuts aren't nuts.
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"Theresa May’s determination to pursue hard Brexit = stepping off a 10-metre diving board without checking there is any water in the pool." -- Paul Mason
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Myky D
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« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2013, 04:34:00 am »

Yes, exactly.  And if they choose to spend it on cigarettes, booze or drugs, then they can't complain if there's no money left for food.  If you have to work to a budget you have to make wise choices.

Well this is it.

I don't see why people on benefits should be allowed any sort of luxury. So if we reduce their payments to vouchers, then they can't spend it on cigarettes or booze. Indeed, we could simply reduce it down to food parcels, clothes and basic housing.
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ymrader
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« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2013, 04:34:20 am »

See above reply to Rosie - it is my money, and I employ the government. It's absolutely my business.

You don't.

You have as much say in welfare reform as you do on defence spending or MP salaries
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Alte Dame, Alte Dame
Hertha BSC, so schön ist dein Name!
Die Farben Blau-Weiß,
die Trikots gestreift,
im Herzen weht nur eins:
Unsere Fahne!
Myky D
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« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2013, 04:39:03 am »

You don't.

You have as much say in welfare reform as you do on defence spending or MP salaries

I do employ the government - I pay their wages and they are answerable to me.
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Myky D
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« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2013, 04:51:36 am »

And thinking about it, maybe it should be that only asylum seekers should get benefits.

People born in the UK have won life's lottery. Just being mediocre, getting up in the morning and going through the motions will win you riches beyond the dreams of most of the people in the world.

Asylum seekers aren't so lucky. They've been born into hardship and may well have risked their lives to get here. They the lifeblood of the UK, the least we can do is give them a leg up. If they've managed to get here by clinging to the underside of a lorry for 4000 miles, then they've got the kind of grit this country needs.
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Weyland
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« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2013, 05:00:42 am »

And thinking about it, maybe it should be that only asylum seekers should get benefits.

What about after they've found the asylum they were seeking?
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"Theresa May’s determination to pursue hard Brexit = stepping off a 10-metre diving board without checking there is any water in the pool." -- Paul Mason
Tactical Voting
Myky D
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Posts: 18084


« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2013, 05:04:06 am »

What about after they've found the asylum they were seeking?

Peanuts aren't nuts.
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ymrader
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« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2013, 05:09:17 am »

I do employ the government - I pay their wages and they are answerable to me.

Ok then, the government is answerable to you

Tell them you aren't paying taxes anymore
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Alte Dame, Alte Dame
Hertha BSC, so schön ist dein Name!
Die Farben Blau-Weiß,
die Trikots gestreift,
im Herzen weht nur eins:
Unsere Fahne!
Myky D
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 18084


« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2013, 05:10:41 am »

Ok then, the government is answerable to you

Tell them you aren't paying taxes anymore

I'm not intending to stop paying taxes, so there's no need to.
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